Traders are stupid, this makes no sense. - Guild Wars Forums

Mike BMT · Oct 16, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Okay, so let me ask you why the entire GuildWars community is like this, and then try to explain to me, why they are.

If you have a

6-28 Axe, +15%^50%hp 10/10 Sundering, +30hp REQUIRES 12 Axe Mastery

Or a

6-28 Axe, +15%^50%hp 10/10 Sundering, +30hp REQUIRES 8 Axe Mastery

Why would people offer almost double for the req. 8?

Every time I try to sell an item with a high req, the people say

"oh, high req.. ew"

Why?

These people are buying the items to use, am I correct?

90% of these people are level 20.

So why wouldnt they use a high req item?

Personally, I use axes, and my axe is req 12.

I have 16 axe mastery, which gives my axe skills alot more damage.

Eviscerate for example, is an Elite axe skill, by far the best one.

With my 16 Axe Mastery, it does +42 damage, and opens a deep wound for 21 Seconds.

But with even 10 Axe Mastery, it does +30 damage and opens a deep wound for 15 seconds.

So, 12 less damage on the Elite skill, lets classify that as maximum Damage.

Now, if you use Eviscerate, it is only common sense to use Axe Rake, and Axe Twist, because those 2 skills take advantage of the deep wound, and strike for + damage, when the opponent has a deep wound, and also strike them for weakness and crippling.

With Axe Mastery 16, Axe rake is +11 Damage and Axe Twist is +21 Damage.

With Axe Mastery 10 Axe rake is +7 Damage and Axe Twist is +14 Damage.

That is a 4-7 damage difference, lets classify that as minimum damage.

So, to sum it up, You deal 5.5-12 More damage when you have axe mastery 16, compared to axe mastery 10.

So, If I have axe mastery 16, I can use a 0.5-16 Damage axe, and do roughly the same damage as someone using a 6-28 Damage axe with only 10 Axe Mastery. Yet even trying to sell a 6-27 axe is laughable to most people, because it isn't max damage.

Of course that is only on those specific skills, but you and I both know that I could use a far worse axe with 16 mastery, than someone with 10 mastery, and do more damage.

So why do people want low requirement items so badly?

If they are low level, and do not have enough attribute points, then they should just get a decent item, and customize it. Not a godly one like the ones I am selling. or simply buy the godly one, and re-spec their attributes accordingly.

I just don't understand why people are willing to pay an arm and a leg on a max damage, 15^50 weapon, when they are losing far more than 15% damage by not having the maximum attributed points in that weapon's mastery.

Please explain it to me.

Penguins Will Fly · Oct 16, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Well first of all, your calculations aren't accurate. You can't use eviscerate, axe rake/twist every single time you hit, as you need to charge up your adrenaline to use them, so you're damage difference is slightly over-exaggerated. I guess why people want the lowest req possible on their good items is because they are rare, which many people feel is better than common items, even though they don't really make too much of a difference in actual gameplay. For example, people would pay millions for a perfect chrystalline sword because its one of the rarest items in the game, when there are now green items which have all perfect mods already. There are other reasons such as being able to make a character more flexible, but I think it's mostly about the rarety.

Savio · Oct 16, 2005, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Why do you even bring up Sundering? It adds about 1% AP. It's never worth it. Req. 8 weapons are the same way - people just like the look. And req. 8 could be used in specialized builds.

LifeInfusion · Oct 16, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Req 8 means you can swap your attributes around. Before, it was ntot that important. Now with attribute refunds out of the game, that axe-wielding warrior can be a 12-16 tactics tanker in 1 second. Des he want to still deal damage with his max damage axe? Yes. That's why he has 8 weapon mastery to use his 8 weapon mastery axe.

Mike BMT · Oct 16, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

First off, I already said the damage calculations would only be for those skills, but at the same time, axe mastery reflects base damage done also.

I said nothing about rarity, i mentioned both as rares.

The fact that people even care about req 8 in a rare is useless.

They can get a plain white axe and customize it, that would be better for them.

Im saying, you can still get 12 tactics with 12 axe, its not hard. using 8 axe mastery pretty much voids the purpose of using axe skills atall.

So having a rare axe is useless with that.

I say if you want to be swapping points all the time, why not have a base shitty axe that is customized, 6-28 white axe with some lower mods (10/9 sunder, 27hp) or something that costs less, and customize it for 20% damage.

Then you can use that axe with your low mastery, and keep your rare max for your good build.

And 10/10 sundering does alot more than you think, I just recently bought one myself, and when doing farming runs in aug. rock, cyclone axe hits half the monsters for 20-30ish and the other half for 40+, all the 40+ being sundered.

Its probably the best haft, hence the price and popularity.

LifeInfusion · Oct 16, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38

You would customize a req 8 axe unless you plan on getting a new one.

Mike BMT · Oct 16, 2005, 11:44 PM // 23:44

You guys aren't getting the point.

Its not worth it unless you use max axe mastery.

period.

Lasareth · Oct 16, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

I constantly use low req weapons on characters I make that make it through the searing. It helps you start out strong. Nothing more, nothing less.

Savio · Oct 16, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50

And it's not worth it if you use a Sundering Haft. It just sounds like you're mad a req. 12 or 13 of yours isn't getting a lot of money. Nobody said you have to have the "perfect" axe. A 14>50, Vampiric 3:1 and armor +5 req. 13 does just as good as a 15>50, 10/10 sundering,+30 health, and req. 8 if not better. If you want to make a lot of money today trading, you better have something that people want, and that's usually low req. weapons.

Valerius · Oct 17, 2005, 12:22 AM // 00:22

it's all about perfection...

the lowest a max dmg weapon can go is req. 7... so it's perfect

when u have that "perfect" weapon... u have a sense of accomplishment

LifeInfusion · Oct 17, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerius

the lowest a max dmg weapon can go is req. 8... so it's perfect
when u have that "perfect" weapon... u have a sense of accomplishment

wrong . I have seen max req. 7

RobotMULE · Oct 17, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

A lower requirement just offers a little more flexibility - if for some reason you only want 8 pts in a particular attribute, you can still use that weapon effectively. Granted, it usually wont make a difference, but its still an improvement. Wanting an item with a low req., unlike wanting Fissure armor, crystalline sword, sickles, black dye, etc, is not just cosmetic.

Chance Folly · Oct 17, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I agree with Mike. In my opinion, people are just picky, vain, and too demanding.

One and Two · Oct 17, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Lowest if Req.7. I know cus i have a few max dmg req 7.

Sundering is worthless in damage, but SAVIO, Sundering is Great for trades. Idiots like it for some reason.

Lower req's means that you can fool around with you att's more. Example...rangers dont use 16 marksmanship anymore. People like to fool around into wilderness and expertise.
I'd guess Warriors would prefer more strength than 16 axe.

MJ12trooper · Oct 17, 2005, 04:24 AM // 04:24

ok guys here is the deal about whay peeps want lower req weapons other than the fact of rarety

what i have heard is that if u only have the req of the weapon u get the max weapon dmg but the higher above the req u have the more ur critical hits can hit

also what someone above said it offers more flexibility

dont flame me if i am wrong and dont post it does not work that way unless u have proof

Savio · Oct 17, 2005, 04:33 AM // 04:33

I understand the value of Sundering, but this person is calling people stupid for not taking his req. 12 weapon. If you're going for perfection you might as well go for low requirements too.

Quote:

dont flame me if i am wrong and dont post it does not work that way unless u have proof

You don't have proof either. The way tests have shown - the way Ensign has showed - is that requirements don't affect damage at all, as long as you meet requirements; only your relevent weapon skill affects damage.

MJ12trooper · Oct 17, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

i did not say i had proof i just said i had heard

i did think they affected criticals though but if i am wrong so be it

Savio · Oct 17, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50

One of Ensign's posts on the subject:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...20&postcount=9
I'm not going to argue.

Only your level in the weapon affects damage and critical percentages.

MJ12trooper · Oct 17, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

hmmmmm ok thanks for the link guess i was wrong

Mike BMT · Oct 17, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Im not mad I have a req 12 axe, I've customized it and everything, because unlike some people in this game, I understand that the extra points in mastery do ALOT more damage.

I am always at 16 mastery so I don't care if I have a 12 axe.

Oct 16, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32	#1
Mike BMT Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Guild of Night Profession: W/Mo	Traders are stupid, this makes no sense. Okay, so let me ask you why the entire GuildWars community is like this, and then try to explain to me, why they are. If you have a 6-28 Axe, +15%^50%hp 10/10 Sundering, +30hp REQUIRES 12 Axe Mastery Or a 6-28 Axe, +15%^50%hp 10/10 Sundering, +30hp REQUIRES 8 Axe Mastery Why would people offer almost double for the req. 8? Every time I try to sell an item with a high req, the people say "oh, high req.. ew" Why? These people are buying the items to use, am I correct? 90% of these people are level 20. So why wouldnt they use a high req item? Personally, I use axes, and my axe is req 12. I have 16 axe mastery, which gives my axe skills alot more damage. Eviscerate for example, is an Elite axe skill, by far the best one. With my 16 Axe Mastery, it does +42 damage, and opens a deep wound for 21 Seconds. But with even 10 Axe Mastery, it does +30 damage and opens a deep wound for 15 seconds. So, 12 less damage on the Elite skill, lets classify that as maximum Damage. Now, if you use Eviscerate, it is only common sense to use Axe Rake, and Axe Twist, because those 2 skills take advantage of the deep wound, and strike for + damage, when the opponent has a deep wound, and also strike them for weakness and crippling. With Axe Mastery 16, Axe rake is +11 Damage and Axe Twist is +21 Damage. With Axe Mastery 10 Axe rake is +7 Damage and Axe Twist is +14 Damage. That is a 4-7 damage difference, lets classify that as minimum damage. So, to sum it up, You deal 5.5-12 More damage when you have axe mastery 16, compared to axe mastery 10. So, If I have axe mastery 16, I can use a 0.5-16 Damage axe, and do roughly the same damage as someone using a 6-28 Damage axe with only 10 Axe Mastery. Yet even trying to sell a 6-27 axe is laughable to most people, because it isn't max damage. Of course that is only on those specific skills, but you and I both know that I could use a far worse axe with 16 mastery, than someone with 10 mastery, and do more damage. So why do people want low requirement items so badly? If they are low level, and do not have enough attribute points, then they should just get a decent item, and customize it. Not a godly one like the ones I am selling. or simply buy the godly one, and re-spec their attributes accordingly. I just don't understand why people are willing to pay an arm and a leg on a max damage, 15^50 weapon, when they are losing far more than 15% damage by not having the maximum attributed points in that weapon's mastery. Please explain it to me.

Oct 17, 2005, 12:22 AM // 00:22	#10
Valerius Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Canada Profession: R/	it's all about perfection... the lowest a max dmg weapon can go is req. 7... so it's perfect when u have that "perfect" weapon... u have a sense of accomplishment Last edited by Valerius; Oct 17, 2005 at 12:29 AM // 00:29..

Oct 16, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46	#2
Penguins Will Fly Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2005 Guild: exiled titans Profession: W/Mo	Well first of all, your calculations aren't accurate. You can't use eviscerate, axe rake/twist every single time you hit, as you need to charge up your adrenaline to use them, so you're damage difference is slightly over-exaggerated. I guess why people want the lowest req possible on their good items is because they are rare, which many people feel is better than common items, even though they don't really make too much of a difference in actual gameplay. For example, people would pay millions for a perfect chrystalline sword because its one of the rarest items in the game, when there are now green items which have all perfect mods already. There are other reasons such as being able to make a character more flexible, but I think it's mostly about the rarety.

Oct 16, 2005, 10:48 PM // 22:48	#3
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	Why do you even bring up Sundering? It adds about 1% AP. It's never worth it. Req. 8 weapons are the same way - people just like the look. And req. 8 could be used in specialized builds.

Oct 16, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52	#4
LifeInfusion Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: in the midline Profession: E/Mo	Req 8 means you can swap your attributes around. Before, it was ntot that important. Now with attribute refunds out of the game, that axe-wielding warrior can be a 12-16 tactics tanker in 1 second. Des he want to still deal damage with his max damage axe? Yes. That's why he has 8 weapon mastery to use his 8 weapon mastery axe.

Oct 16, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31	#5
Mike BMT Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Guild of Night Profession: W/Mo	First off, I already said the damage calculations would only be for those skills, but at the same time, axe mastery reflects base damage done also. I said nothing about rarity, i mentioned both as rares. The fact that people even care about req 8 in a rare is useless. They can get a plain white axe and customize it, that would be better for them. Im saying, you can still get 12 tactics with 12 axe, its not hard. using 8 axe mastery pretty much voids the purpose of using axe skills atall. So having a rare axe is useless with that. I say if you want to be swapping points all the time, why not have a base shitty axe that is customized, 6-28 white axe with some lower mods (10/9 sunder, 27hp) or something that costs less, and customize it for 20% damage. Then you can use that axe with your low mastery, and keep your rare max for your good build. And 10/10 sundering does alot more than you think, I just recently bought one myself, and when doing farming runs in aug. rock, cyclone axe hits half the monsters for 20-30ish and the other half for 40+, all the 40+ being sundered. Its probably the best haft, hence the price and popularity.

Oct 16, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38	#6
LifeInfusion Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: in the midline Profession: E/Mo	You would customize a req 8 axe unless you plan on getting a new one.

Oct 16, 2005, 11:44 PM // 23:44	#7
Mike BMT Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Guild of Night Profession: W/Mo	You guys aren't getting the point. Its not worth it unless you use max axe mastery. period.

Oct 16, 2005, 11:50 PM // 23:50	#8
Lasareth Aquarius Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Somewhere between Boardwalk and Park Place	I constantly use low req weapons on characters I make that make it through the searing. It helps you start out strong. Nothing more, nothing less.

Oct 17, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31	#12
RobotMULE Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Sep 2005 Profession: Mo/W	A lower requirement just offers a little more flexibility - if for some reason you only want 8 pts in a particular attribute, you can still use that weapon effectively. Granted, it usually wont make a difference, but its still an improvement. Wanting an item with a low req., unlike wanting Fissure armor, crystalline sword, sickles, black dye, etc, is not just cosmetic.

Oct 17, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26	#13
Chance Folly Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2005 Profession: E/Mo	I agree with Mike. In my opinion, people are just picky, vain, and too demanding.

Oct 17, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14	#14
One and Two Jungle Guide Join Date: Aug 2005	Lowest if Req.7. I know cus i have a few max dmg req 7. Sundering is worthless in damage, but SAVIO, Sundering is Great for trades. Idiots like it for some reason. Lower req's means that you can fool around with you att's more. Example...rangers dont use 16 marksmanship anymore. People like to fool around into wilderness and expertise. I'd guess Warriors would prefer more strength than 16 axe.

Oct 17, 2005, 04:24 AM // 04:24	#15
MJ12trooper Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: farming somewhere Profession: E/Mo	ok guys here is the deal about whay peeps want lower req weapons other than the fact of rarety what i have heard is that if u only have the req of the weapon u get the max weapon dmg but the higher above the req u have the more ur critical hits can hit also what someone above said it offers more flexibility dont flame me if i am wrong and dont post it does not work that way unless u have proof

Oct 17, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35	#17
MJ12trooper Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: farming somewhere Profession: E/Mo	i did not say i had proof i just said i had heard i did think they affected criticals though but if i am wrong so be it

Oct 17, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50	#18
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	One of Ensign's posts on the subject: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...20&postcount=9 I'm not going to argue. Only your level in the weapon affects damage and critical percentages.

Oct 17, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56	#19
MJ12trooper Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2005 Location: farming somewhere Profession: E/Mo	hmmmmm ok thanks for the link guess i was wrong

Oct 17, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40	#20
Mike BMT Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Guild of Night Profession: W/Mo	Im not mad I have a req 12 axe, I've customized it and everything, because unlike some people in this game, I understand that the extra points in mastery do ALOT more damage. I am always at 16 mastery so I don't care if I have a 12 axe.